Is and should there be a place for the Aristotelian virtue of phronesis in contemporary participatory design practice and for design as an act of anxious love? In this paper we take a critical look at participatory design and reflect upon the virtues of the collective designer. Towards a background of the dreams and lost utopias of some related collective designers of the past: the Bauhaus, Nordic design and Scandinavian collective systems design, we suggest that our attention should not be on the great espoused design ideals but on the politics-in-practice of the collective designer. The really interesting collective designer in practice might very well be much more of a "machiavellian" reflective practitioner than an objective scientist or politically correct utopist.